Généalogie and Heritage

Source: The Battle Abbey Roll

Description

Type	Valeur
Titre	The Battle Abbey Roll

Entrées associées à cette source

Personnes
Lord ROBERT de Toeni de Stafford
ROBERT de Toeni Lord of Belvoir

Notes


In Fauroux, he states, "Berenger De Todeni son of Robert de Tosny of Belvoir (was) named after his father's brother Berenger Spina, all three occur in a Marmoutier charter of 1063, when Berenger, probably still an adolescent, authorizes an agreement made by his father". (p.157). Van Houts notes that in Norman times it was common for adolescents and boys age 10 or even younger to act as witnesses to charters such as these. Their father would typically give them a slap or worse in order that they would remember the day and what was attested to (p.65). Hence it is not clear what age Berengar was in 1063. Thus Robert is uncle to John de Laval the monk at Mamoutier son of Widow de Valle, and the sibling to Berengeris Spina and to the Widow de Valle (Bertha who married Guy LaValle) see Bertha's entry. This cartulary evidence is the most important document in the identification of this branch of the de Tosny family. It is discussed in detail in Stewart's, Origins and Early Generations of the Tosny Family, beginning on page 36. http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bobwolfe/gentxt/Origin_and_early_genera tions_of_the_Tosny_family.pdf. Stewart's grasp of Latin allows us to learn that in other charters relating to Marmoutier the lands being granted were those in Vesly and Guerny in the Vexin area - a considerabledistance south of the Tosny lands. It suggests that the younger children of Raoul II may have been given lands not tied to the main home bases at Tosny and Conches. What is more to the point though, is that the charter of 1063 above specifically notes that Robert de Todeni's lands were at Guerny. Stewart assumes (without any reservations) that this Robert and Robert of Belvoir are the same person. At this time the Marmoutier Priory was a popular religious house for donations by Norman Barons, despite its location at a distance in the Loire River Valley (see Green, 1997, p.394-5; Dugdale, Mon. Ang., III, 289). It was probably Robert de Tosny (Toeni, Todeni) whose name appears on the various Battle Abbey and similar rolls of those who supplied ships, men and materials to William the Conqueror, and were awarded with land grants in England (vast holdings). Event: Historical Companion toWilliam I Event: Military 14 OCT 1066 Hastings Event: Political Advisor to William I (IW). Battle Abbey Roll:A combination of all the known Battle Abbey Rolls, Including Wace, Dukes, Counts, Barons, Lords who Attended William at Hastings. These Were the commanders. They Were the elite who HAD Provided ships, horses, men and supplies for the venture. They Were Granted the lordships. The list Does not include the Estimated 12.000, Standard bearers, Men at Arms, Yeomen, Freemen and other ranks, although some ofthese Were Granted smaller parcels of England, some even as small as 1/8 th of a knight's fee. http://www.robertsewell.ca/battleabbey.html Robert de Todeni Neel de Toeni Raoul de Toeni The spelling of Todeni is associated with Robert of Belvoir - this is the way his name is written on his coffin lid. The spelling of Toeni is linked to the family of Ralph, son of Roger. It is likely that at his age, Robert of Belvoir has amassed a substantial fortune which he used to support the Conqueror's need for ships and other supplies including knights. The Dives - Sur - Mer list is taken from the plaque in the church at Dives-sur-Mer, Normandy, France, where William the Conqueror and his knights said mass before setting sail to invade England in 1066. It lists all the knights who took part in the invasion.[Note by www.nay.org webmaster: The following widely distributed list is reported by at least one researcher to be a fabrication. http://www.three-peaks.net/1066.htm. Some could have died or whatever early lists have been mistranscribed, or additions were made from the Domesday Book of 1086. It includes the following: Berenger de Toeni Guillaume de Tocni Ilbert de Toeni Jumel de Toeni Robert de Toeni Raoul de Toeni Raoul, Robert, Juhel, Ibert, Berenger, and Guillaume; but Juhel is inserted by mistake, for he was named De Toteneis, or Totness, from his Devonshire barony (see Maine). Raoul or Ralph de Toeni-called by Wace De Conches (from his barony of Conches, near Evreux.

In Fauroux, he states, "Berenger De Todeni son of Robert de Tosny of Belvoir (was) named after his father's brother Berenger Spina, all three occur in a Marmoutier charter of 1063, when Berenger, probably still an adolescent, authorizes an agreement made by his father". (p.157). Van Houts notes that in Norman times it was common for adolescents and boys age 10 or even younger to act as witnesses to charters such as these. Their father would typically give them a slap or worse in order that they would remember the day and what was attested to (p.65). Hence it is not clear what age Berengar was in 1063.

Thus Robert is uncle to John de Laval the monk at Mamoutier son of Widow de Valle, and the sibling to Berengeris Spina and to the Widow de Valle (Bertha who married Guy LaValle) see Bertha's entry.

This cartulary evidence is the most important document in the identification of this branch of the de Tosny family. It is discussed in detail in Stewart's, Origins and Early Generations of the Tosny Family, beginning on page 36. http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bobwolfe/gentxt/Origin_and_early_genera tions_of_the_Tosny_family.pdf. Stewart's grasp of Latin allows us to learn that in other charters relating to Marmoutier the lands being granted were those in Vesly and Guerny in the Vexin area - a considerabledistance south of the Tosny lands. It suggests that the younger children of Raoul II may have been given lands not tied to the main home bases at Tosny and Conches. What is more to the point though, is that the charter of 1063 above specifically notes that Robert de Todeni's lands were at Guerny. Stewart assumes (without any reservations) that this Robert and Robert of Belvoir are the same person.

At this time the Marmoutier Priory was a popular religious house for donations by Norman Barons, despite its location at a distance in the Loire River Valley (see Green, 1997, p.394-5; Dugdale, Mon. Ang., III, 289).

It was probably Robert de Tosny (Toeni, Todeni) whose name appears on the various Battle Abbey and similar rolls of those who supplied ships, men and materials to William the Conqueror, and were awarded with land grants in England (vast holdings).

Event: Historical Companion toWilliam I Event: Military 14 OCT 1066 Hastings Event: Political Advisor to William I (IW).

Battle Abbey Roll:A combination of all the known Battle Abbey Rolls, Including Wace, Dukes, Counts, Barons, Lords who Attended William at Hastings. These Were the commanders. They Were the elite who HAD Provided ships, horses, men and supplies for the venture. They Were Granted the lordships. The list Does not include the Estimated 12.000, Standard bearers, Men at Arms, Yeomen, Freemen and other ranks, although some ofthese Were Granted smaller parcels of England, some even as small as 1/8 th of a knight's fee. http://www.robertsewell.ca/battleabbey.html

Robert de Todeni
Neel de Toeni
Raoul de Toeni

The spelling of Todeni is associated with Robert of Belvoir - this is the way his name is written on his coffin lid. The spelling of Toeni is linked to the family of Ralph, son of Roger. It is likely that at his age, Robert of Belvoir has amassed a substantial fortune which he used to support the Conqueror's need for ships and other supplies including knights.

The Dives - Sur - Mer list is taken from the plaque in the church at Dives-sur-Mer, Normandy, France, where William the Conqueror and his knights said mass before setting sail to invade England in 1066. It lists all the knights who took part in the invasion.[Note by www.nay.org webmaster: The following widely distributed list is reported by at least one researcher to be a fabrication. http://www.three-peaks.net/1066.htm. Some could have died or whatever early lists have been mistranscribed, or additions were made from the Domesday Book of 1086. It includes the following:

Berenger de Toeni
Guillaume de Tocni
Ilbert de Toeni
Jumel de Toeni
Robert de Toeni
Raoul de Toeni

Raoul, Robert, Juhel, Ibert, Berenger, and Guillaume; but Juhel is inserted by mistake, for he was named De Toteneis, or Totness, from his Devonshire barony (see Maine). Raoul or Ralph de Toeni-called by Wace De Conches (from his barony of Conches, near Evreux.