Généalogie and Heritage

Source: Robert de Todeni

Description

Type	Valeur
Titre	Robert de Todeni

Entrées associées à cette source

Personnes
Lord ROBERT de Toeni de Stafford
ROBERT de Toeni Lord of Belvoir

Notes


"Robert de Todeni came over with William the Conqueror (see Battle Abbey Roll), and Robert de Todeni is supposed by some to have been the standard-bearer to William I, or to have been a relation of that individual ; but this is refuted by one of the ablest known writers of Norman history, who says : " There is no question at all about the standard-bearer. Ralf de Todeni, or Toeni (now Thesny) was hereditary standard-bearer of Normandy, but declined to carry the standard at the battle of Hastings, that hishands might be freer for the fight. The authority for both statements is Wace's Roman de Roii. England, of which the caput appears to have been at Fhimstead, Herts. Robert de Todeni, the Lord of Belvoir, had nothins; to do with the standard. It can only be a blunder of some late antiquary to assert that he had. It is not even known for certain what relation he was to Ralf." (BAA, p.299-300). "He was rewarded by the Conqueror for his services with grants of many lordships ; and his great barony, as entered in Domesday, included lands in thirteen counties, comprising eighty manors altogether ; the chief of which lay on the borders of Lincoln and Leicester, in six of which Osulf (the reputed father of his wife Adeliza, in right of whom Robert held the lordship of Belvoir) is recorded as having previously held them." (BAA, p.299). In his otherwise excellent work, Pottou has included a Robert, father to Robert, whose existance cannot be proven. What is clear is that Robert de Todeni whose son Berengar authorized his father's gift to the monks of Marmoutier Abbey had a sister the widow Valle and a brother Berengar Spina noted in the document (see below). Thus Robert must have been older than most authors would allow (since his nephew was born 1025), and the most parsimonious interpretation is that there was only one Robert with an eldest son Berengar. We will soon see how confusing this family is when considering that Robert de Toeni Lord of Stafford was buried about the same time as Robert above and has in some cases it has been assumed that the two are the same (although Robert de Stafford is stated to be a son of Roger (Toeni) of Conches in a charter. So with this in mind, here follows a biographical sketch of the Robert de Todeni who is presently buried in the Castle at Belvoir which he built beginning in 1066. ' Robertus de Belvedeir', founder of Belvoir priory with his wife, ca. 1085 [Mon. Angl. III:288-9, Num. III. 'Robertus de Todeni', major tenant in chief at Domesday Book, 1086. For a list of the many manors (most in the Leistershire regions) in the possession of Robert de Tosny see http://domesdaymap.co.uk/name/453250/robert-of-tosny/ "Belvoir Castle was begun by Robert de Todeni, who served as William the Conqueror's Standard Bearer during the Battle of Hastings. Probably, a motte castle was built at Belvoir no later than the 1080's, a structure that would have been quite typical of its day. Robert de Todeni was also responsible for the construction of a priory adjacent to the castle, and was buried inside the chapel in 1088. Having been unearthed in the 18th century, Robert now rests inside the castle (still in his coffin!)" (Seipp tree at Genealogy.com). Actually this is a dating problem, and it is certain the Robert was buried in 1093 and his wife before this, There appears to be a confusion of Ralf and Robert in many documents - although this appears to relate to Ralph, nephew to Robert of Belvoir.

"Robert de Todeni came over with William the Conqueror (see Battle Abbey Roll), and Robert de Todeni is supposed by some to have been the standard-bearer to William I, or to have been a relation of that individual ; but this is refuted by one of the ablest known writers of Norman history, who says : " There is no question at all about the standard-bearer. Ralf de Todeni, or Toeni (now Thesny) was hereditary standard-bearer of Normandy, but declined to carry the standard at the battle of Hastings, that hishands might be freer for the fight. The authority for both statements is Wace's Roman de Roii. England, of which the caput appears to have been at Fhimstead, Herts. Robert de Todeni, the Lord of Belvoir, had nothins; to do with the standard. It can only be a blunder of some late antiquary to assert that he had. It is not even known for certain what relation he was to Ralf." (BAA, p.299-300).

"He was rewarded by the Conqueror for his services with grants of many lordships ; and his great barony, as entered in Domesday, included lands in thirteen counties, comprising eighty manors altogether ; the chief of which lay on the borders of Lincoln and Leicester, in six of which Osulf (the reputed father of his wife Adeliza, in right of whom Robert held the lordship of Belvoir) is recorded as having previously held them." (BAA, p.299). In his otherwise excellent work, Pottou has included a Robert, father to Robert, whose existance cannot be proven. What is clear is that Robert de Todeni whose son Berengar authorized his father's gift to the monks of Marmoutier Abbey had a sister the widow Valle and a brother Berengar Spina noted in the document (see below). Thus Robert must have been older than most authors would allow (since his nephew was born 1025), and the most parsimonious interpretation is that there was only one Robert with an eldest son Berengar. We will soon see how confusing this family is when considering that Robert de Toeni Lord of Stafford was buried about the same time as Robert above and has in some cases it has been assumed that the two are the same (although Robert de Stafford is stated to be a son of Roger (Toeni) of Conches in a charter. So with this in mind, here follows a biographical sketch of the Robert de Todeni who is presently buried in the Castle at Belvoir which he built beginning in 1066.

' Robertus de Belvedeir', founder of Belvoir priory with his wife, ca. 1085 [Mon. Angl. III:288-9, Num. III.

'Robertus de Todeni', major tenant in chief at Domesday Book, 1086.

For a list of the many manors (most in the Leistershire regions) in the possession of Robert de Tosny see http://domesdaymap.co.uk/name/453250/robert-of-tosny/

"Belvoir Castle was begun by Robert de Todeni, who served as William the Conqueror's Standard Bearer during the Battle of Hastings. Probably, a motte castle was built at Belvoir no later than the 1080's, a structure that would have been quite typical of its day.

Robert de Todeni was also responsible for the construction of a priory adjacent to the castle, and was buried inside the chapel in 1088. Having been unearthed in the 18th century, Robert now rests inside the castle (still in his coffin!)" (Seipp tree at Genealogy.com). Actually this is a dating problem, and it is certain the Robert was buried in 1093 and his wife before this,

There appears to be a confusion of Ralf and Robert in many documents - although this appears to relate to Ralph, nephew to Robert of Belvoir.