Généalogie and Heritage

Source: Foundation for Medieval Genealogy- speculation as to the father of Roger II de Toéni de Conches and family of Roger I d'Espagne

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Titre	Foundation for Medieval Genealogy- speculation as to the father of Roger II de Toéni de Conches and family of Roger I d'Espagne

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Sir ROGER 'd'Espagne' Tosny Conches

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Notes


Foundation for Medieval Genealogy One of the most controversial issues regarding the Tosny family is whether there were two individuals named Roger de Tosny who were active during the first half of the 11th century. Keats-Rohan raised the possibility that Roger de Tosny who travelled to Spain in [1018] (shown above as Roger [I]), was different from a younger Roger de Tosny (maybe nephew of Roger [I]) who founded Conches abbey (shown below as Roger [II])[1450]. The same theory has been espoused more recently by Jaime de Salazar Acha, although his main purpose is identifying the wife of Roger [I] as discussed above[1451]. The theory of two individuals is confirmed by the charter dated to [1040], quoted below, which is witnessed by both "Rodgerii filii Rodulfi" (assumed to be Roger [I]) and "Rogerii de Conchis" (Roger [II]). The parentage of Roger [II] has not been ascertained, but presumably he was closely related to Roger [I]. The estimated birth date “[before 1038]” of Raoul [III], son of Roger [II] see below, suggests that Roger [II] was considerably younger than Roger [I] and therefore may have been nephew of the latter. The fact that Roger [II] was ancestor of the later Tosny family is shown by two charters which record his descendants. Firstly, Henry I King of England confirmed the foundation of Conches by "Rogerius senior de Toenio et filius eius Radulphus senex et Radulphus juvenis filius prædicti Radulphi senis et Rogerius filius Radulphi juvenis", quoting the foundation by "Rogeriusfilius Radulphi Toteniensis" for the soul of "coniugis meæ Godehildis", by charter dated to [1130][1452]. Secondly, Henry II King of England confirmed the property of Conches, including donations by "Rogeris senior de Toenio et filius eius Radulfus senex et Radulphus juvenis filius predicti Radulphi senex et Roger filius Radulphi juvenis", by charter dated 1165 or [1167/73][1453]. ROGER [I] de Tosny ([990]-killed in battle [before 17 Jun] [1040]). His parentage is confirmed by Guillaume of Jumièges who records that Richard II Duke of Normandy appointed “Nigellum Constantinensem atque Rodulfum Toennensem et Rogerium filium eiusdem” as custodians of “castrum Tegulense” (Tillières {Verneuil, Eure}), which the duke had built to protect against attack by Eudes [II] Comte de Blois (so dated to after 1004)[1424]. Roger [I] de Tosny spent time in Spain, returned to Normandy, and was killed in rebellion against Guillaume II Duke of Normandy. The precise chronology of these events is uncertain given the contradictions in the different primary sources as we shall see.Two sources record Roger in Spain in [1017/20]. Firstly, the Chronicle of Adémar de Chabannes (written before [1034]) records that "Normanni, duce Rotgerio" (presumably identifiable as Roger [I], although he never bore the ducal or even comital title), who had been fighting Saracens in Spain, asked "comitissa Barzelonensi Ermensende…vidua" for the hand of her (unnamed) daughter[1425]. This episode is dated to [1017/20], when Ermesinde was acting for her son Berenguer Ramon I “el Curvo” Comte de Barcelona during his minority. In addition, the other events recorded by Adémar in the same paragraph, all relate to 1016/18. Secondly, the early 12th century Chronicon S Petri Vivi Senonensis records, in a section headed 1015 but whose coverage extends into later years, that "Rotgerius filius Rodulfi comitis" left Normandy with an army for Spain (“de Normannia perrexit cum exercitu in Hispaniam”) where he captured “civitates et castella...Tarraconam [Tarragona] et Gerundam [Girona]”, married “sororem Raymundi Berengerii Stephaniam”[1426]. The Chronicon S Petri Vivi Senonensis records that "Rotgerius filius Rodulfi comitis" lived in Spain “cum uxore et exercitu suo per 15 annos” before returning “ad patrem suum in Normanniam” (having left “20 viris et uxore et omnibus quæ possidebant” in Spain) to make peace “cum duce Richardo”[1427]. “Duce Richardo” was either Duke Richard II or Duke Richard III, but assuming that the Chronicon’s report is accurate (which is not without doubt) Roger [I]’s return from Spain to Normandy must be dated to before Aug 1027, when Duke Richard III died. Roger’s presence in Normandy after this date is confirmed by two charters dated during the early 1030s: firstly, "…Rogerii filii Radulfi…" witnessed the charter dated to [1030] under which Robert II Duke of Normandy donated "in comitatu Abrincatensi villam…Sancti Johannis" to the abbey of Mont-Saint-Michel[1428], and secondly “...Rogerii Todelensis...” witnessed the charter dated [20 Jul 1031/Jul 1032] under which Robert II Duke of Normandy donated the church of Arques to Saint-Wandrille[1429]. After thistime, the situation becomes confused, but indications are that Roger returned to Spain. ...m ([1017/20]) [--- de Barcelona, daughter of RAMÓN BORELL I Comte de Barcelona & his wife Ermesinde de Carcassonne]. The Chronicle of Adémar de Chabannes (written before [1034]) records that "Normanni, duce Rotgerio" (presumably identifiable as Roger [I], although he never bore the ducal or even comital title), who had been fighting Saracens in Spain, asked "comitissa Barzelonensi Ermensende…vidua" for the hand of her (unnamed) daughter[1439]. This episode is dated to [1017/20], when Ermesinde was acting for her son Berenguer Ramon I “el Curvo” Comte de Barcelona during his minority. In addition, the other events recorded by Adémar in the same paragraph, all relate to 1016/18. Europäische Stammtafeln names her “Adelaida (Papia)”[1440]. No primary source has been identified which confirms that either of these names is correct. The early 12th century Chronicon S Petri Vivi Senonensi records, in a section headed 1015 but whose coverage extends into later years, that "Rotgerius filius Rodulfi comitis" left Normandy with an army for Spain (“de Normannia perrexit cum exercitu in Hispaniam”) where he married “sororem Raymundi Berengerii [Ramon Berenger [I] “el Viejo” Comte de Barcelona] Stephaniam” and lived there “cum uxore et exercitu suo per 15 annos” before returning “ad patrem suum in Normanniam” (having left “20 viris et uxore et omnibus quæ possidebant” in Spain) to make peace “cum duce Richardo”[1441]. Roger [I] & his wife had [three] children: a) [ELBERT (-killed in battle [before 17 Jun] [1040]). b) [ELINAND (-killed in battle [before 17 Jun] [1040]). c) [VUASO . “...Vuaso filius Rogerii Tothennensis..

Foundation for Medieval Genealogy

One of the most controversial issues regarding the Tosny family is whether there were two individuals named Roger de Tosny who were active during the first half of the 11th century. Keats-Rohan raised the possibility that Roger de Tosny who travelled to Spain in [1018] (shown above as Roger [I]), was different from a younger Roger de Tosny (maybe nephew of Roger [I]) who founded Conches abbey (shown below as Roger [II])[1450].

The same theory has been espoused more recently by Jaime de Salazar Acha, although his main purpose is identifying the wife of Roger [I] as discussed above[1451]. The theory of two individuals is confirmed by the charter dated to [1040], quoted below, which is witnessed by both "Rodgerii filii Rodulfi" (assumed to be Roger [I]) and "Rogerii de Conchis" (Roger [II]). The parentage of Roger [II] has not been ascertained, but presumably he was closely related to Roger [I].

The estimated birth date “[before 1038]” of Raoul [III], son of Roger [II] see below, suggests that Roger [II] was considerably younger than Roger [I] and therefore may have been nephew of the latter. The fact that Roger [II] was ancestor of the later Tosny family is shown by two charters which record his descendants.

Firstly, Henry I King of England confirmed the foundation of Conches by "Rogerius senior de Toenio et filius eius Radulphus senex et Radulphus juvenis filius prædicti Radulphi senis et Rogerius filius Radulphi juvenis", quoting the foundation by "Rogeriusfilius Radulphi Toteniensis" for the soul of "coniugis meæ Godehildis", by charter dated to [1130][1452].

Secondly, Henry II King of England confirmed the property of Conches, including donations by "Rogeris senior de Toenio et filius eius Radulfus senex et Radulphus juvenis filius predicti Radulphi senex et Roger filius Radulphi juvenis", by charter dated 1165 or [1167/73][1453].

ROGER [I] de Tosny ([990]-killed in battle [before 17 Jun] [1040]). His parentage is confirmed by Guillaume of Jumièges who records that Richard II Duke of Normandy appointed “Nigellum Constantinensem atque Rodulfum Toennensem et Rogerium filium eiusdem” as custodians of “castrum Tegulense” (Tillières {Verneuil, Eure}), which the duke had built to protect against attack by Eudes [II] Comte de Blois (so dated to after 1004)[1424].

Roger [I] de Tosny spent time in Spain, returned to Normandy, and was killed in rebellion against Guillaume II Duke of Normandy. The precise chronology of these events is uncertain given the contradictions in the different primary sources as we shall see.Two sources record Roger in Spain in [1017/20]. Firstly, the Chronicle of Adémar de Chabannes (written before [1034]) records that "Normanni, duce Rotgerio" (presumably identifiable as Roger [I], although he never bore the ducal or even comital title), who had been fighting Saracens in Spain, asked "comitissa Barzelonensi Ermensende…vidua" for the hand of her (unnamed) daughter[1425].

This episode is dated to [1017/20], when Ermesinde was acting for her son Berenguer Ramon I “el Curvo” Comte de Barcelona during his minority. In addition, the other events recorded by Adémar in the same paragraph, all relate to 1016/18.

Secondly, the early 12th century Chronicon S Petri Vivi Senonensis records, in a section headed 1015 but whose coverage extends into later years, that "Rotgerius filius Rodulfi comitis" left Normandy with an army for Spain (“de Normannia perrexit cum exercitu in Hispaniam”) where he captured “civitates et castella...Tarraconam [Tarragona] et Gerundam [Girona]”, married “sororem Raymundi Berengerii Stephaniam”[1426].

The Chronicon S Petri Vivi Senonensis records that "Rotgerius filius Rodulfi comitis" lived in Spain “cum uxore et exercitu suo per 15 annos” before returning “ad patrem suum in Normanniam” (having left “20 viris et uxore et omnibus quæ possidebant” in Spain) to make peace “cum duce Richardo”[1427]. “Duce Richardo” was either Duke Richard II or Duke Richard III, but assuming that the Chronicon’s report is accurate (which is not without doubt) Roger [I]’s return from Spain to Normandy must be dated to before Aug 1027, when Duke Richard III died.

Roger’s presence in Normandy after this date is confirmed by two charters dated during the early 1030s: firstly, "…Rogerii filii Radulfi…" witnessed the charter dated to [1030] under which Robert II Duke of Normandy donated "in comitatu Abrincatensi villam…Sancti Johannis" to the abbey of Mont-Saint-Michel[1428], and secondly “...Rogerii Todelensis...” witnessed the charter dated [20 Jul 1031/Jul 1032] under which Robert II Duke of Normandy donated the church of Arques to Saint-Wandrille[1429]. After thistime, the situation becomes confused, but indications are that Roger returned to Spain.

...m ([1017/20]) [--- de Barcelona, daughter of RAMÓN BORELL I Comte de Barcelona & his wife Ermesinde de Carcassonne]. The Chronicle of Adémar de Chabannes (written before [1034]) records that "Normanni, duce Rotgerio" (presumably identifiable as Roger [I], although he never bore the ducal or even comital title), who had been fighting Saracens in Spain, asked "comitissa Barzelonensi Ermensende…vidua" for the hand of her (unnamed) daughter[1439]. This episode is dated to [1017/20], when Ermesinde was acting for her son Berenguer Ramon I “el Curvo” Comte de Barcelona during his minority. In addition, the other events recorded by Adémar in the same paragraph, all relate to 1016/18. Europäische Stammtafeln names her “Adelaida (Papia)”[1440]. No primary source has been identified which confirms that either of these names is correct.

The early 12th century Chronicon S Petri Vivi Senonensi records, in a section headed 1015 but whose coverage extends into later years, that "Rotgerius filius Rodulfi comitis" left Normandy with an army for Spain (“de Normannia perrexit cum exercitu in Hispaniam”) where he married “sororem Raymundi Berengerii [Ramon Berenger [I] “el Viejo” Comte de Barcelona] Stephaniam” and lived there “cum uxore et exercitu suo per 15 annos” before returning “ad patrem suum in Normanniam” (having left “20 viris et uxore et omnibus quæ possidebant” in Spain) to make peace “cum duce Richardo”[1441].

Roger [I] & his wife had [three] children:
a) [ELBERT (-killed in battle [before 17 Jun] [1040]).
b) [ELINAND (-killed in battle [before 17 Jun] [1040]).
c) [VUASO . “...Vuaso filius Rogerii Tothennensis..